Kawhi Leonard Proved He's Not in the Same Class as LeBron James
莱昂纳德已经证明了，自己和詹姆斯不是一个级别的。
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[–][SAS] Tim Duncan Old_Man_Riverwalk21 1283 指標 1 天前
The “issue” with kawhi, giannis, harden and many other stars is that they do not have flawlessly well rounded games, and so there are situations that can cause them issues. With Kawhi, I think the biggest takeaway from this series is that sure he and the team choked, but that the team was lacking playmakers who moved the ball, got everyone their looks, and gave the offense and surrounding players an identity. Giannis has issues scoring outside of the paint, harden is harden, etc.
This is what makes lebron so valuable, and in retrospect why he is still by far the best player in the league. There is nothing lebron can’t do, and thus you can surround him with anything and it works. You wanna complete garbage around him? Sure, he’ll take you to the finals one year and win 60+ games other years. You wanna give him another ball dominant guard who can’t shoot (wade)? That works too. We saw it work with kyrie too, and now we’re seeing him with a top notch big man where lebron is responsible for all playmaking and that works too. The shortcomings of these other stars to me is really only glaring because in comparison to lebron, they have specific roster needs that need to be met to maximize them.
I’m not saying the clippers didn’t choke and that many of us had them as the favorites. But even the people who picked them to win it all can admit that the clippers never really felt like they gelled, and even when their offense was at its best it just felt like it was because of the overwhelming talent they had.
马刺球迷：小卡、字母哥、哈登和很多其他球星的“症结”在于，他们的能力并非是全面无短板的，所以会因此而出现麻烦。先说小卡，快船和掘金那轮系列赛之后最大的感受就是，小卡和他的球队肯定是拉胯了的，不过快船缺少一个可以转移球、给大家创造机会，从而让球队进攻和队友们打出风格的组织者。字母哥的问题在于油漆区之外的得分能力，至于哈登嘛，他是哈登。
所以这才凸显出詹姆斯的可贵，再回顾他以往的表现，也就可以解释为啥他至今仍然是联盟最强球员了。詹姆斯的技术没有短板，所以随便你怎么围绕他建队，都能取得成效。你说要给他配备一帮垃圾？行嘛，他还是会带队打进总决赛，有些年份还能取得60+胜场。你想给他一个也需要球权但是投篮不稳的控卫（韦德）？这也没问题。咱们看过他和欧文一起取得的成就，如今我们又看着全权负责场上组织工作的他和一个顶级内线搭档，同样行之有效。在我看来，其他球星的短板其实挺刺眼的，因为比起詹姆斯，他们需要特定的阵容才能使自己的作用最大化。
有一说一哈，快船确实是托大了，之前还有很多人还把他们视作争冠热门。不过呢，即便是那些觉得他们能夺冠的人也得承认，快船其实从来没有真正合拍过，哪怕是他们的进攻火力最猛的时候，给人的感觉也只是天赋溢出之后的正常结果。
[–]Celtics Swarthykins 93 指標 1 天前
Yup - he really can be literally anything you want him to be on the court. I root for him almost solely because people forget this every couple years. Giannis isn't better. Kawhi's not better. Steph's not better. KD's the only one close (in my opinion).
凯尔特人球迷：没错，詹姆斯在场上确实能满足你的一切要求。我支持他，仅仅是因为好多人每隔几年就忘了他的优秀。字母哥还没有强过他，小卡也是。库里也是。唯一接近他的人只有杜兰特（我的观点）。
[–]Cavalius1 113 指標 1 天前
Scoring wise KD is above him, overall offense as in dictate pace, put players in position etc, hell nah
就得分能力而言，杜兰特在詹姆斯之上；你要说掌控节奏、指挥队友跑位等方面的整体进攻的话，那就不是了。
[–]Cavaliers maqikelefant 91 指標 1 天前
Lebron has a higher PPG average throughout his career than KD, as well as a better FG%. At best KD is on the same level as Lebron scoring-wise. He's definitely not above him.
骑士球迷：詹姆斯整个职业生涯的场均得分都比杜兰特多，而且命中率更高。杜兰特的得分能力最多和詹姆斯持平，绝对不在詹姆斯之上。
[–]Pacers notoriouspuma 69 指標 1 天前
What I think he might be trying to say is that KD has a wider scoring skillset than Lebron. While they are both in the top of the league in terms of scoring, KD can get buckets in more ways, whereas Lebron uses a lesser variety of skills to score because he knows he can bully his way to the rim when he wants. Nothing against Lebron at all, he does what is the most effective and it leads to him being more efficient.
步行者球迷：我觉得那哥们儿的意思是，阿杜的得分手段比詹姆斯更丰富。虽说他俩的得分能力都在联盟顶级，但阿杜的上分方式更多，而詹姆斯就没那么多样，因为他知道自己可以一路平推到篮下。并没有挑刺的意思哈，詹姆斯采取的是最高效的方式，这就使得他效率更高。
[–]Raptors thegoodbadandsmoggy 757 指標 1 天前
People really underrate players here based off their goldfish memory. How do you undersell fucking LeBron. Curry as well, man is so disrespected here now.
猛龙球迷：很多人都是金鱼记忆，所以常常会低估球员。你怎么敢看低特么的詹姆斯啊！库里也是，这个论坛有些人对他真的很无礼。
[–][HOU] Hakeem Olajuwon logontoreddit 124 指標 1 天前
Yup. I don't support the Lakers but people out here disrespecting LeBron. The way that dude carried Cavs with Mo Williams as the second best player is legendary. I repeat Mo fucking Williams. Then his series against the GSW when both Love and Kyrie went out. He was robbed of finals MVP, they just gave it to Iggy cuz he guarded LeBron and his team won. The man went toe to toe with 4 all stars. 3 of them in their prime after losing 2nd and 3rd best players in his team. LeBron's playoff loses are as impressive as his victories. Kwahi his great, despite this playoffs, the man is 2 times finals MVP. But he never was in same level as LeBron and probably will never be.
火箭球迷：没错，虽说我不是湖蜜，但论坛里有些人还是对他很轻蔑的。想当初骑士的二当家只是莫-威廉姆斯啊，詹姆斯扛着球队前进的表现堪称传奇。再说一遍，特么的小莫啊。后来他又在总决赛碰上了勇士，乐福和欧文都不在。还被抢走FMVP，联盟把这个荣誉给了一哥，仅仅因为是他防老詹而且勇士赢了。这个男人还单挑过四个全明星。詹姆斯的季后赛失利和他的胜利一样亮眼。小卡很强，毕竟是两夺FMVP的男人，可他从未达到过老詹的层次，或许永远都不会。
[–]Lakers CravingKoreanFood 26 指標 1 天前
Dont remind me all the shit teams lebrons played on. Mo Williams just had to not shoot 30% in the playoffs but he couldn't even do that
湖人球迷：干嘛非得提老詹待过的那些烂队呢。小莫打季后赛只要命中率不低于30%就好，可他就连这个都办不到。
[–]Lakers Chendii 523 指標 1 天前
Curry is definitely the most underrated super star imo. But that's the problem with adding Durant to an already stacked team. Kinda dilutes the praise they earn for winning.
湖人球迷：我觉得库里绝对是最被低估的超巨。不过问题在于，勇士这支本就星光熠熠的强队又加入了杜兰特。这就会让他们夺冠之后赢得的赞誉打上一点折扣。
[–]Lakers LardHop 11 指標 1 天前
Imagine if it was Lebron instead of KD on the warriors.
And now that Lebron wouldn't have to shoulder all the playmaking, he'll probably hustle off ball and on defense much more.
Goddamn, imagine him with steph and klay.
湖人球迷：假如当初去勇士的不是阿杜而是詹姆斯，那会是怎样……
那样的话，詹姆斯就不必承担所有组织工作，或许会每球必争，也能贡献多得多的防守。
[–]Raptors ThaNorth 15 指標 1 天前
Bro, LeBron with Curry and Klay would average like 15 assists a game, lol. He would never need to shoot.
猛龙球迷：老弟啊，要是老詹配库里和克莱的话，那场均能有15个助攻，哈哈哈。他压根都不需要出手。
[–]Knicker Bockersunfunny_clown 66 指標 1 天前
There are three players in the league who will guarantee you a great offense: LeBron, KD, and Curry. Nobody else.
Maaaaaybe Luka is getting there, but it’s early for him.
联盟中能够保证顶级进攻的球员只有三个：詹姆斯、阿杜和库里。
或许东契奇也快了，不过现在还早。
[–]king_chill 50 指標 1 天前
Harden is one hundred percent in that conversation
怎么说都得带上哈登吧。
[–]Knicker Bockersunfunny_clown 18 指標 1 天前*
Perhaps. I don’t think he just makes a whole team offense go nuclear like those three. But it’s close.
或许吧。我就是觉得他没法像那三位那样带飞全队进攻。不过也很接近了。
[–]Raptors Spicy_Urine 235 指標 1 天前
Hardens biggest weakness is that he is Harden.
These are the takes we love.
猛龙球迷：一楼说“哈登最大的短板在于，他是哈登”。这才是咱们喜欢的观点。
[–]Trail Blazers a3winstheseries 123 指標 1 天前
He just didn’t want to write out hardens problems because everybody has seen them “analyzed” a million times.
开拓者球迷：他没有写出哈登的问题，因为大家已经“分析”过一万次了。
[–]Celtics manbare 108 指標 1 天前
Yeah I think we all know that Harden's biggest problems are his unwillingness/inability to create offense off the ball and vulnerability to aggressive double teams.
凯尔特人球迷：没错，咱们应该都知道哈登最大的问题在于，他没法也不情愿用无球创造机会，并且面对凶悍包夹时很柔弱。
[–]Spurs Koioua 51 指標 1 天前
Harden's problem: Very ball dominant, and has shown not to be a good off ball player, sometimes plays with the intent of fouling rather than scoring, sometimes he plays with a lack of motivation, and his game shrinks often when it matters the most.
马刺球迷：哈登的问题：非常依赖球权，并且已经证明自己不是一名出色的无球球员，有些动作的第一目的不是得分而是造犯规，有时他打得缺乏动力，并且在最重要的时刻他的表现就会缩水。
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[–][LAC] Bob McAdoo Retro_Super_Future 99 指標 1 天前
Kawhi is top 5 in the NBA right now. Lebron is top 5 all time...
快船球迷：小卡现在是联盟前五，詹姆斯是历史前五……
[–]47Lecht 11 指標 1 天前
Simply put but true
简单明了
[–]Cambridge45 1043 指標 2 天前
All year kawhi was getting put up on the same level as lebron. He’s not even better than him when lebron is 35. He doesn’t even sniff peak lebron.
这个赛季大家一直都把小卡和詹姆斯相提并论。他甚至还没超过已经35岁的老詹。他甚至连巅峰詹姆斯的边都摸不到。
[–][MIA] Jason Williams Paralta 378 指標 1 天前
It made me mad for so long that people thought this way. Lebron is miles ahead of everyone. It just doesnt become super obvious until the playoffs. They were calling kawhi a surgeon but its lebron that dissects defenses.
热火球迷：所以之前很多人把他和詹姆斯归到同一水准的时候，我就很生气啊。詹姆斯遥遥领先其他人。这一点只有到了季后赛才一目了然。还说啥小卡是外科医生，可詹姆斯才是那个肢解防守的人。
[–]Raptors dhillonaire 54 指標 1 天前
Before last year it was KD and Curry, and this time it was Kawhi.
猛龙球迷：上赛季之前，是杜兰特、库里和老詹比，这赛季又轮到小卡。
[–]Lakers samg990 173 指標 1 天前
Id say even jokic was better than him this playoffs
湖人球迷：要我说，今年季后赛连约基奇都打得比小卡好。
[–]Raptors SwissDecaf 119 指標 1 天前
You can put Kawhi on a good team and ask him to be a Lebron stopper, and he might achieve that sometimes. That is impressive.
He is not on the same level as Lebron, never was.
猛龙球迷：你把小卡放到一支强队，让他去做詹姆斯终结者，他或许偶尔能办到。还能让人眼前一亮。
但他和詹姆斯不是一个级别的，从来都不是。
[–][CHA] Malik Monk CLTwolf 41 指標 1 天前
Kawhi’s defense is also massively overrated by a lot of fans ever since 2014. If you watched him in the nuggets series he was absolutely atrocious off the ball and not any sort of lockdown defender on the ball. I think his defensive reputation is a big part of why some people considered him the best player in the league
黄蜂球迷：自打14年起，小卡的防守也是被很多球迷大大高估了。看了打掘金那轮系列赛就知道，他的无球打得稀烂，而且对对方持球人的防守也算不上压制。在我看来，有些人之前之所以把他看做是联盟最强，有很大部分原因在于他的防守名声。
[–][GSW] Klay Thompson crRNA 10 指標 1 天前
He didn’t deserve the dpoy one of those years either. Draymond has more first place votes.
勇士球迷：他拿的那两个DPOY也是配不上的，追梦的第一选票比他更多。
[–]Bucks kesakko 8 指標 1 天前
Nobody in this league is close to LeBron. He could retire today and we can come back in ten years and I would guarantee that everyone (except Doncic maybe) never got close to what he did.
雄鹿球迷：詹姆斯甩开其他人一大截。哪怕他今天就退役，咱们十年后再回头看，我可以保证，没人（或许东契奇是例外）能接近他的成就。
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[–]Mavericks Anansispider 382 指標 2 天前
He’s not. Fans boosted him to the high heavens for that championship run.
独行侠球迷：小卡本来就不是。就因为上赛季那一波强势夺冠表现，很多人都快把他吹上天了。
[–]Basketball Nutrition 196 指標 2 天前
I mean, we can't just handwave a championship run, but I do agree. especially when people try to talk about him already being a top 15 all time player when it's only been like four or five elite level years total.
虽说咱们不该抹杀他的夺冠贡献，不过我确实同意楼上的观点。尤其是在他总共就发挥出四五年顶级水准的情况下，居然还有人说他已经进入历史前十五行列。
[–]Nuggets GoyathlayA 13 指標 2 天前
It's really just 3 years of being a top 5 player lol
2015-2016 he was good but it's hard to put him in that category yet.
He has 4 years of being All-NBA level
掘金球迷：哈哈哈，他联盟前五的水准也就三年。
15/16赛季打得很不错，但要算进联盟前五还是很难的。
他有四个赛季打出了赛季最佳阵的水准。
[–]Spurs Mycatsnameisreddit 24 指標 1 天前
He was second in MVP voting, first team all nba and DPOY in 2015-2016 lmao
马刺球迷：呵呵呵呵呵，他15/16赛季MVP投票第二，赛季最佳阵一阵而且是最佳防守人好嘛
[–]Mavericks Anansispider 153 指標 2 天前
His run was good, but to be in the top echelons all time especially all time you need to add a lot more to that resume. Hell I would even say he has a lot of ground to catch up to Steph Curry before he even can think about touching Lebron
独行侠球迷：他去年夺冠那一路确实打得好，但要想跻身历史顶级行列的话，他的履历还差得远呐。这么说吧，他的成就连库里都差很多，这还咋追詹姆斯哦。
[–]Basketball Nutrition 44 指標 2 天前
agreed. two MVPs plus the chips make it pretty tough there. I get that Kawhi is like the slower, stronger spiritual successor to MJ on the court, but it's literally only been four years, ya know? he's awesome, obviously, but people gotta relax. I think that injury (where the Spurs were right from the beginning) just takes away too much athleticism for him to be as good as he could otherwise be. that said, no one should be making excuses about how "tired" he was in that game, considering all the time off, all the load management, and the fact that Jokic and Murray were playing every other day around 40 minutes for like three weeks. lol
同意。库里的两个MVP和几个冠军这还是很难追赶的。小卡在场上就像是更慢却更壮的乔丹精神传承人。可他这种表现其实也就四个赛季啊，知道不？他很厉害，这是很显然的，不过大家也得冷静点。我觉得那次伤病（17/18赛季）在很大程度上剥夺了他的运动能力，这就导致他没法达到应有的高度。话虽如此，谁都不该替上轮系列赛的他找借口说如何如何“疲惫”，毕竟休了那么多，各种负荷管理，何况人家约基奇大概连着三周都是每个一天就打个40分钟左右。哈哈哈
[–]Roxy-is-a-good-girl 11 指標 1 天前
Clippers should figure out a trade with OKC for Chris Paul.
Gets CP3 home to LA. Proven leader and playmaker. His contract is nothing to Clips ownership if it get them a ring.
Plus the storylines would be awesome.
快船应该想法和雷霆交易换来保罗。
让保罗回到洛杉矶吧，这可是经过考验的领袖和组织者。要是能带领快船夺冠，对于管理层而言，保罗的合同就啥也不是。
而且也很有故事性。
[–]Knicks Highway-Sixty-Fun 97 指標 2 天前
If Lebron can win this championship, he's right. We and the media elevated Giannis and Kawhi to Lebron's level this year, perhaps a little prematurely.
These playoffs have so far proven that Lebron James is the one true king of the NBA... for now..
尼克斯球迷：如果詹姆斯本赛季夺冠的话，那楼主说得很对。咱们球迷和媒体这赛季把字母哥和小卡碰到了詹姆斯的高度，或许是有点太早了。
今年季后赛到目前为止可以证实的一点是，詹姆斯就是NBA真正的王者……现在是……
[–]Lakers ZAA136 192 指標 2 天前
Nah even if he doesn’t win the championship he’s right
湖人球迷：不啊，哪怕老詹这赛季没有夺冠，楼主也没错啊
[–]Raptors Fitzyy23 62 指標 2 天前
It’s hilarious how quickly this sub changes their opinion
猛龙球迷：可真够逗的，这个论坛的风向真是说变就变
[–]Lakers vicente8a 62 指標 1 天前
Because this sub is filled with thousands of people. It’s not one opinion.
湖人球迷：因为论坛有成千上万用户啊，又不是只有一种观点。
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[–]Granpa0 1502 指標 2 天前
Anyone who ever thought Kawhi is on Lebron's level doesn't know basketball. He's a great basketball player, but he's not a leader, his game doesn't make his teammates better. Kawhi leaves a team, they are still playoff contenders, Lebron leaves a team, they go from championship contenders to the lottery. It's not even close, it never has been.
之前那些说小卡和老詹同级别的人纯粹是不懂球。小卡确实很厉害，但他不是领袖，他没法让队友变得更强。他离开那支队伍之后，他们依然是季后赛常客，詹姆斯离开老东家之后，他们就从争冠行列直奔乐透。
[–]East Delanorix 246 指標 2 天前*
I agree, but in fairness, the Raptors were much better than the Clippers.
我同意，不过有一说一啊，小卡去之前的猛龙本来就比快船强很多的。
[–]Nuggets ndarwincorn 637 指標 1 天前
lol this is peak hindsight bias.
掘金球迷：呵呵呵，你这不就是事后诸葛嘛
[–]Rockets C0stcoWholesale 186 指標 1 天前
Seriously lmao. Clippers are stacked, they just didn't play to their potential and got beat by an amazing team on absolute fire (can we please give the nuggets some credit too?).
NOBODY thought the Raptors would sniff the finals whereas the Clippers were about to be pre-emptively crowned the champs before this series.
Everyone is pretending the Clippers team is trash when in reality they choked but will still be contenders next year because of their stacked ass team.
猛龙球迷：真是搞笑。快船本来就兵强马壮啊，他们只是没有打出潜力，被一支实力强劲又状态爆炸的队伍淘汰了。
季后赛开始之前，人人都觉得我龙连总决赛的边都摸不到，而快船都快被提前加冕了。
等到他们掉链子了，你们又说他们很垃圾，然而人家到了下赛季依然是争冠队伍，因为他们能打的人太特么多了。
[–]Cavaliers Alohalhololololhola 124 指標 1 天前
Did you see the Cavaliers when Lebron sat ??? It was literally Bench players and G leagues. We even dumped most of the players for picks to other teams and they are either so bad they are out of the league or coming off the bench.
骑士球迷：你们看过老詹下场休息时的我骑吗？？真就一帮板凳球员和发展联盟球员。为了换其他队的选秀签，我们还送走了大部分，结果他们不是菜到离开NBA就是在打替补。
[–]Clippers Reynbuckets 71 指標 2 天前
When Raptors traded for Kawhi, they already had all the complimentary pieces they needed to compete. He was legitimately the missing piece. When Lebron joined Cleveland. They were not a competitive team. So they had to retool on the fly. They built a team around Lebron. This meant that as soon as Bron left, that team was bound to struggle. Same thing would happen to current Lakers if Bron dipped, cus they are built around him. Clippers and Raptors were never built around Kawhi. He joined them after they already were good. Both are great players.
快船球迷：猛龙引进小卡之前，就已经具备了争冠所需的全部配件，小卡就是那块缺失的拼图。而在詹姆斯加盟之前，骑士可不是啥争冠球队啊，他们只能围绕詹姆斯建队。这就意味着，只要老詹走人，那个队伍就注定沉沦。要是老詹离开湖人情况也是一样，因为他们就是围绕老詹建队的。而快船和猛龙从来都不是围绕小卡建队的，在他加盟之前两队就已经很有实力了。不过这俩都是顶级球员。
[–]TexWinter21 64 指標 2 天前
The more I think about it. I think any top 7 player could hop on the raptors and win the championship this year or last year. But yet the media gives kawhi all the credit
我越琢磨就越觉得啊，不管这赛季还是上赛季，换做任何一个前7水准的球员去猛龙，都能带队夺冠。可上赛季媒体还是把功劳都给了小卡。
[–][TOR] OG Anunoby IamSofakingRAW 12 指標 1 天前
I don’t think so lol. I don’t think we win with any one other than KD, Kawhi or Lebron. The defensive intensity of the semi finals and Conf Finals are something I don’t think just anyone could slot in and win. Our whole team was scared half of the Philly series and Kawhi had to carry us
猛龙球迷：呵呵，我可不这么认为。如果他不是小卡、阿杜或者老詹，肯定是不能带我龙夺冠的。半决赛和分区决赛的防守强度可不是随便来个人就能对付的。上赛季打76人那轮系列赛我们全队都很怂，还得靠小卡扛着走。
[–]Raptors Smalldick420 67 指標 2 天前
I mean, the man averaged like 34 and 9 and singlehandedly dragged us passed the sixers. Then the series against the bucks flipped when he started to shut down giannis. Last year during the playoffs, he was the best player in world. Just because the clippers CRASHED AND BURNED IN A HORRIBLE ENTERTAINING FASHION does not mean people get to discredit one of the greatest playoff runs of all time by an individual player.
猛龙球迷：这么说吧，那个男人场均几乎34+9，一己之力拖着猛龙跨过了76人。接着打雄鹿的时候，从他锁死字母哥开始局面就扭转了。就说去年季后赛，他就是世界最强球员。你不能因为快船今年以一种辣眼的时尚方式拉胯了，就去抹杀小卡去年那种季后赛史上顶级的个人秀。
[–]Knicker BockersTormund_Metsbane 44 指標 2 天前
People on this sub have the memory of like 2 weeks so i'm not surprised people are saying he's trash now.
这个论坛很多人只有两周的记忆，所以他们现在喷小卡垃圾也很正常。
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来源：Reddit
编译：云长刮个痧
